March
20, 2007
Its hard to decide what to do about a situation like that.
If you had killed the dog, I think the law would be on
your side, as long as you had a valid pistol permit. The
fact is the owner was breaking a city ordinance by not
having his dog on a leash. The city limits extend three
miles in any direction so you were within those limits.
You have a right to defend yourself. I think it would
be wise to talk to a police officer and find out what
your rights are in this type of case. If you know where
the owner is camped I would consider filing a complaint.
At least, by talking to an officer, the police are made
aware of the animal and a presedence is set
should the animal go though with an attack. Personally,
now that you know such a dog is around, I wouldn't go
hiking without being armed. I would be more afraid of
the dog than a mountain lion, since the dog is totally
unafraid of humans. Its sad that we have defend our selves
from other people's stupidity but that's part of living
in our society.
PS. If you do decide to go hiking armed, I would have
the weapon situated so that it could be drawn and ready
in few seconds. A dog of that size can cover a hundred
yards in around four or five seconds.
I
sure as hell hope you post this response..
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Any dog that is out of the immediate control of
their master, and I mean imm.ediate, like he better
be on a leash or under electronic control, and comes
at me with an offensive attitude, is DEAD! No ifs,
NO ands, NO buts about it. (I know the difference
between a dog being defensive and one that has "flipped"
[offensively aggressive])
I am SO over people that think
it's just fine that their animal has the absolute
right to scare, or worse yet, harm another person.
If they can't or won't take responsibility to
maintain control over their beloved animal, they
deserve what ever happens.
Personally, I would rather shoot
the owner than the animal, since I know it's not
all the animals fault, but I can legally defend
my actions if I only respond to the immediate
threat of an attacking dog.I grew up with dogs,
cats, and various farm animals, and I have a good
understanding of what makes them tick.I also know
that more than a few people should NEVER own animals,
as they have absolutely no idea what is required
to control them or
understand them.
Here is a test: If you own a dog
that gets in a fight with another dog, and you
are
unable to separate the 2 dogs within 30 secs,
you have absolutely NO right owning an animal
at all. (well, maybe a cow or a chicken!). If
you have never been in this situation, and you
"think" that this is easy, consider
yourself part of the 75% of people that should
NEVER own
an animal. You are obviously quite clueless, when
it comes to animal behavior, and will probably
get someone hurt besides yourself.
After actively breaking up fights
between various breeds of dogs, I have come to
this conclusion, there are 4 breeds that, if acting
offensively aggressive, I will kill immediately
without hesitation, Rottweiler, Malamute, German
Pincher, and Pit Bull. I have seen each one of
these animals in multiple fights, and can say
without hesitation, that when these animals "flip",
they revert back to their wolf ancestors. At this
point, they are no longer a domesticated animal
and unless properly trained, will NOT respond
any verbal or physical commands. (If they were
properly trained, they probably wouldn't "flip"
in the first place)
Needless to say, but if you think fighting a another
human is bad, you can't believe what is required
to stop one of these breeds after they have "flipped".
Remember, you can't use your hands unless you
want to get bit, so most owners start with either
a baseball bat or a 2x4, and I have seen dogs
that these had NO effect on.
Unfortunately, most owners never
really find this out until it actually happens,
and then someone else always pays for the owners
ignorance. I would love to see an owner held totally
responsible for their animals behavior, including
any and all legal actions that can be brought
against them. Make them pay for their stupidity!!
So, where was your pistol, Alan???
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People who own those kinds of dogs do it out of fear.
But any dog can be protective
Funny thing about uncontrollable weapons, they generally
wind up injuring the possessor. You're right in
thinking that people who have large aggressive dogs
do so because they are afraid. It also gives them
a feeling of power by having such a dog. But most
of them forget that dogs are pack oriented and in
order to control them you have to be the dominant
dog. If
you are not then the dog will ignore you and will
often fight you for leadership of the pack. The
more aggressive the dog, the more aggressive the
owner has to be in order to control it. Since people
who are attracted to aggressive dogs are basically
cowards, they seldom gain complete control, if ever.
I love dogs myself but I would not hesitate to kill
a dog that was
aggressive towards me if I could. And I would go
immediately to the police and file charges against
the owner. It seems like the police listen to the
first one to make a complaint and I would do my
best to be the first to complain. I would do everything
I could legally to make life hell for the owner.
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Ok, why didn't you have your gun with you? What good
are laws and morality if your throat is ripped out?
How far is it to the nearest hospital; if you lived
through it? Thankfully you were intelligent enough to
know how to proceed. Next time it might not be enough..
.
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Read the dog blog. Been there. It’s the
unconditional love, companionship and protection,
not the turds, believe me.
Let
me say that as a dog lover and an owner of big
dogs I also would not have wanted to have to seriously
injure the dog and would have tried not to. But
I would have if I thought I would be seriously
injured.
You
did the right move by standing still and having
something to use and keeping it between you. What
we also do if we walk with a large automatic umbrella
and have opened the umbrella as a barrier to keep
a dog away from us, or a dog away from our dog,
as we have our dog on the leash and only one hand
free.
What
I have used in the past and has worked is when
the dog is charging but not too close yet is to
take a step toward the dog and shout or make a
motion with my arms. This usually freezes the
dog and they may continue to bark but they don’t
charge. This also would at least buy you some
time to move away, not run! Or maneuver yourself
into a better position. It may also slow down
any potential charge so if they do decide to attack
they don’t have the momentum (small comfort
that may be if he bites you)
If
a dog gets loose from a yard and bites someone
I have a little more sympathy but not much. You
either have the little yappy that are fear-aggressive
(they’re the bite you before you bite me
kind) and most other dogs who all have some natural
aggressiveness.
Bottom
line I don’t care if you’re in the
middle of nowhere, if you let your dog off the
leash and if he’s the sweetest dog in the
world and he decides to charge someone to lick
their face and got hurt or killed by the person,
even if he was my dog, I would understand. All
dogs should be on leashes! We’ve learned
this the hard way. We’ve walked our dogs
on leashes only to have other owners unleashed
dogs come charging toward ours. We’ve walked
them around the neighborhood and then had a house
dog run through the front screen door to charge
us. We have the people in the schoolyard behind
us leave their dogs off leash while they run around
the track and every circle of the track the dog
gets near our fence and our dogs start barking.
We’ve
seen trained dogs and trained K9 dogs disobey
a command. If a K9 dog is going to disobey a command,
then your house dog is too. No matter how well
trained a dog is you cannot rely on them to obey
100% of the time. The dog should have been on
a leash. AND the dog should have had training.
Especially a breed like a Rot. I don’t believe
the bad dog theory, I believe the no training
theory. All dogs can be aggressive but they can
be trained. And if you have any doubt whatsoever
about your dog even after training, then LEASH
them! I don’t care if you’re in the
middle of nowhere or think you’re depriving
your dog the opportunity to run free. If you take
that chance, be ready for the consequences. They
are to blame as much as if they had attempted
to attack you, not their dog.
If
you had had to shoot the dog, as much civil problem
as that may have caused I would have done the
same thing. I have no sympathy left for ANY dog
owner with ANY dog that does not keep that dog
on a leash in a public area. I don’t care
if the dog is trained, and ALL dogs should be
trained, even the little yappy dogs who will bite
your ankles.
And
it doesn’t matter what the law says, the
dog should have been on a leash. You don’t
say if you talked to the owner but he/she should
learn from this and not allow their dog off the
leash. And I don’t care how old the dog
is, he can be trained.
It’s
not fear, it’s not taking responsibility.
I would have liked to see that dog with the owner
after it calmed down to see who was really in
charge; it still could have been the dog, not
the owner.
Like
parents who don’t discipline their kids
because they’re afraid to stifle them, or
want to be their friends and then they have unsocialized
kids. They’re not doing the kids any favors
just like dog owners aren’t doing the dogs
any favors. The owners create the problem and
the poor dog is only doing what they’ve
figured out that works and the owner blames the
dog.
Too
bad I don’t have an opinion on this eh?
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March
21, 2007
So, you get lucky and don't have to kill a dog because
you were able to either fend it off, or scare it. (if
you are able to fend it off, or scare it, then it never
was a threat in the first place) There is no
way, short of inflicting major hurt on a "flipped"
dog, that you would be able to stop it from tearing
you up!
Look
at the military security dogs used in foreign countries
(not the ones left in the states for domestic active
duty), once they are let loose on combatants, it's over.
either the combatant gets very lucky and seriously hurts
the dog, or the handler uses a bull shocker it stop
the dog before he tears the combatant apart. [look at
some of the old Vietnam clips if you think I'm lying!]
Believe me, they don't have to train these animals to
keep fighting, it's just the opposite, they try
to control the animals instinct to fight, with very
limited success.
Can't
people see past their own fear? If you don't take a
"flipped" dog down, then you are as responsible
as the owner, when this same animal successfully takes
the next victim down.
So,
the next time you narrowly escape a run-in with a out
of control animal/owner, remember to think about the
next unlucky soul that gets to experience the same fear,
and who may not fair as well as you did. Then imagine
the rationalization you will tell yourself for NOT taking
appropriate action when this happened to you. Better
yet, imagine what you would like to tell the victim
of this dog's previous attack (but didn't report it)
before he attacked you.
Rebuttals QUOTE:
If a dog gets loose from a yard and bites someone I
have a little more sympathy but not much.
WRONG:
If a dog gets loose, it's the fault of the owner for
NOT providing adequate safeguards to prevent the escape!
Fuck sympathy!! Explain that to the victim!
Or,
are you saying that you sympathize with the owner for
having a dog that's smarter than they are? :>)
QUOTE:
All dogs can be aggressive but they can be trained.
WRONG:
I call bullshit.. I know of no real animal trainer that
would ever make such a dubious statement. The only people
that believe this crap are people that have paid for
dog training, since it's the standard line used by the
local dog trainer to get their business.
If
you want to train something, train the owners. This
is the only real answer, as a trained observer can spot
a troublesome animal before it does too much damage,
and deal with it appropriately. Personally, I would
love to see some type of certification required for
dog owners,
just like weapons training is required for a firearms
permit.
QUOTE:
I would have liked to see that dog with the owner after
it calmed down to see who was really in charge; it still
could have been the dog, not the owner.
DUUHH!!
Does anyone besides me see what's wrong with the above
question? Who is really in charge?? NO ONE!!!!!!! That's
the problem.. The real question, Why analyze who's in
charge, when it's obvious that this is a real danger
and should have been reported immediately.
So
while you're observing the relationship between the
owner and the dog, the dog decides that you are threatening
his domain and takes a hunk out of your arm, but now
you know the the dog is in charge.. Time well spent!
Just
Remember:Thought
w/o Action is a DayDream, Action w/o Thought is a NightMare!!
March
24, 2007
Since I read about your experience with the big
dog earlier this week, I can't believe how many
times I've seen big, possibly bad dogs off leash!
This brilliant couple had their pit bull wandering
around the parking lot at PC Market. We also have
a rottie that lives on our street. The guy takes
him out for walks and carries the leach in his hand.
Like that's going to do a lot to control Mr. Snarl
if he wants to do some damage. So far he's always
been successful in calling him back, but I wonder
how it would be if our dogs were out in the yard.
The other interesting thing I saw was an advertisement
for Pedestrian Safety with Dogs. I wonder how they
interpret that????
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